Irene Grant’s conversation with Kari Levitt
Text in English to type
[2] organization in New Zealand. …But we tried very hard not to go to New Zealand. We were invited four times to go and every time until the fourth we said no… So that was that. When we came back we accepted… Donald was offered all kinds of things. We were, in fact, offered a job in China. …called the The International Fellowship of Reconciliation. I.F.O.R. That had an English and a Swiss… It had a number of groups, quite a very lively group in Britain. And Donald went out out to run the I.F.O.R. and a that point he ran into Tess[1] […] And Donald had a committee, one member of which was a Roman Catholic called Maier. Caspar Maier. An Austrian Roman Catholic was a member of this committee which was trying to represent (various(?)) and he was a representative. …which machinations we were helped by Grossvater (Kolnaï), by Karli, by dear Eugen Benedikt.
K: Who was Eugen Benedikt?
I: He was a wonderful Weisse Rabe. Karli called Oscar Bo[c]k “der weisse Rabe” (?) The “white raven”. […]
K: These were Catholics.
I: He was left-wing Catholic. He was a steel worker. He was an out and outer. And he remained Catholic and he was in all kinds of tight corners and one day I said to him, I'll never forget it, he was a wonderful little [3] man… Karli knew al about thse people and so did Grossvater (Kolnaï) He's living in New York. You should visit him.
K: He's still alive.
I: Yes. […]
I: I've got his address. He was always known as little Otto Bauer. I said to him one day, […]
I: […] His name is Fritz Lener and I can give you his address. He was Jugendsorge (?).
K: Otto Bauer?
I: No, Fritz Lener. At that time he was … […] [4]
[…]
I: I can show you one or two of his letters. Well, how can I begin about Kolnaï?
K: I remember him …with a beard.
I: He didn't have a beard in those days. He was an exiled Hungarian Jew and he was a very constant contributor to the Volkswirt. And he was a good friend of Karli's. […]
[5] remember. I think before. (Garbled), John (Macmurray) was the other so to speak high figure in the Christian Left. And he and Karli were in constant exchange. Karli regarded himself as being the Apocalyptic chap and they regarded John as being the great revolutionary with a more harmonious outcome. […]
I: John's book are all over there. He did the opposite thing… Fo you know that BBC finally turned him down because the thought he was too radical. He was a very, very radical person. You only have to read his stuff beside Karli in Christianity and the Social Revolution. His aim was to put out books for students and never midn about a great philosophical name. […]
I: They had a Communist…
K: (Doug Jolly) was a surgeon, who went to Spain and worked with a mobile surgical v___ in the Spanish civil war.
[6]
[7]
[8] […] K: But this book has now established a reputation the world over with the title The Great Transformation.
I: What the title is it known under?
I: Too bad. […] Because he said “it is about the origins of our times.” That's what it's about. Anyway too bad.
K: […]
[10] […]
I: Now Tess did not knew Karli in the way that we knew him. But of course she knew Karli and she may have very interesting thing to say. But certainly you should see her at all costs… By the way the flat was provided for her when she retired. What happened was she didn't retire because nobody could possibly keep all the… So what they did was, she retired of course, and then they moved everything, all the files into her flat. And there they sit. And she keeps it gong in a kind of way from there.
K: What was the organization she worked for?
I: The Society for the Protection of Science and Learning, usually known as S.P.S.L.
[…]
I: Szilard's first contact was with Donald. It was Donald… Donald was the first to meet Szilard. I have a lot of things to tell you. I think Tessie's stories would make a good background, if not more than background. […]
I: Gretta Berken? […]
[11] […]
I: Now Kenneth Muir, is an absolutely key person. (There follows a discussion of arrangements for the visit to K.M.) Now Kenneth, just so you know, is doing an enormous amount of work. He is translating Calderon. […] During part of that period, he was the editor of The Leeds Citizen. He has kept a total file of his articles in The Leeds Citizen. Many of them were expressions of the discussions in the Christian Left and many of them, without any doubt, were inspired by the time we spent with Karli. So Kenneth […]
[12] I: Mary died of leukemia…
[…]
[13] I: I think Donald was the first to talk to Szilard about where to go and what to do.
[25] …we were going to apply to Rothschild for a grant to do it.
Mensch menschlich
[35] K[2]: The biggest mystery then is really concerning my father with this Christian Left thing, because, (…) how is it that Karli got so mixed up with the Christian Left? I can understand how it is that he gave classes on the early Marx, because he was a great teacher and because he believed very much in what the early Marx was saying. But I find difficult to understand this apparent change from someone who, certainly in Vienna, was very secular.
I: Well he was very much interested in little Otto Bauer. He was supportive of him and he was very supportive of Donald. In a sense it was political, because he really thought that Donald was being manipulated by this Jesuit. But that's a different thing…
K: Yes that's different. That's politics.
I: And I think I have to say this. I think he was very impressed, so he should have been, by Zoe and her colleagues in the Auxiliary Movement, because they were very substantial people and they were very keen [36] Christians. Margaret Ronan? and Joseph Fairfield? would talk to him on their own grounds about their Christian faith. I think Karli was impressed with them, quite rightly. So was I. Because they could tell you exactly what they meant. And they acted in character. They stood by him when people were cross with him because they realized that he belonged. Now I can't explain it better that.
K: But you understand that it has to be explained.
I: You could say that, because I knew Karli very well, I don't think he was using these people. In a way it looks like that. But I don't think so.
K: Yes in a way.
I: We didn't feel we were being used. And, of course, there were many people who came from various angles into the Christian Left. They were very much enlightened by the idea that it wasn't this bloody dogmatic Marx that they had to worry about but somebody who was very close to their own feelings and Karli was able to do that. I don't think that's using people. It's recognizing what was in them.
Organizations Irene Grant spoke about
The International Fellowship of Reconciliation (IFOR), Menschheitkämpfer, Society for the Protection of Science and Learning (SPSL), The Society of Visiting Scientists (SVS), The World Student Christian Federation (WSCF), Herrengall 30, The Austrian Student Relief => The European Student Relief, Young Men's Christian Association (YMCA), World University Service (WUS), Student Christian Movement (SCM), Pycombe Corner Group, The Q Camp, .
Persons Irene Grant spoke about
By Alphabetical Order:
- B: Bauer Otto, Benedikt Eugen, Beggs Barbara, Bock Oscar
- C: Cannon Alfred, Casspegg x, the Cornfords
- F: Fairfield Zoe, Fielding Michael
- G: Grosser John
- I: Ingram Kenneth, Father Iredell / Iredale,
- J: Jolly Doug
- K: Kennipcott Helen, Kolnaï Grossvater, Kurz Trude
- L: Lener Fritz
- M: MacMurray Elisabeth, Macmurray John, Macky / Mac x, McConnell Jean, McLean Douglas, Maier Caspar, Mansfield x, Muir Kenneth, Murray Agnes, Murray Gilbert
- N: Niebuhr Reinhold
- R: Reid Marjorie (née Young), Ridyard Kenneth, Ridyard Norman
- S: Schiff Leonard, Simpson Esther (Tess), Strachey John, Streep Tammy, Szilard Leo
- T: Tatlow x, Tillich Paul, Tissingdon x, Turton Helen
- U: Ullman Helen
- W: Wesley John
By apparition:
Oscar Bock, Otto Bauer, Caspar Maier, Eugen Benedikt, Fritz Lener, Grossvater Kolnaï, Doug Jolly, Helen Turton, Esther Simpson (Tess), Leo Szilard, the Cornfords, Kenneth Muir, Douglas McLean, Kenneth Ingram, Agnes Murray, Gilbert Murray, Leonard Schiff, Father Iredell / Iredale, John Strachey, Paul Tillich, John Grosser, Reinhold Niebuhr, x Tissingdon, Tatlow and these people, Father John Macmurray, Elisabeth MacMurray, Helen Ullman, Michael Fielding, Alfred Cannon, Jean McConnell, Trude Kurz, Norman Ridyard, Macky / Mac, Zoe Fairfield, x Casspegg, Barbara Beggs, Marjorie Young (= Marjorie Reid), Kenneth Ridyard[3], Edward x, John Wesley, Helen Kennipcott, x Mansfield, Tammy Streep.
Editor's Notes
Text Informations
Reference:
Date: 1986
KPA: 30/03