From Abraham Rotstein (17 December 1955) - Revision history

Santiago Pinault at 21:02, 31 August 2019

2019-08-31T21:02:23Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:02, 31 August 2019
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	However, I am more inclined to think that the matter rests on a condition, rather than a doctrine or belief. (I think this may be getting into the chicken-and-the-egg dilemma, but impotent people and children are generally known to regard themselves at the center of the universe - as a defensive belief following the opposite feeling or condition). I think that the doctrine of chosenness carries little weight, if it is not entirely repudiated by most Jews today. Ethno-centrism is not a popular doctrine… But the <u>condition</u> of apartness or chosenness seems to hold. Certainly their position in history has been unique.		However, I am more inclined to think that the matter rests on a condition, rather than a doctrine or belief. (I think this may be getting into the chicken-and-the-egg dilemma, but impotent people and children are generally known to regard themselves at the center of the universe - as a defensive belief following the opposite feeling or condition). I think that the doctrine of chosenness carries little weight, if it is not entirely repudiated by most Jews today. Ethno-centrism is not a popular doctrine… But the <u>condition</u> of apartness or chosenness seems to hold. Certainly their position in history has been unique.
	The psychologists' view of the matter, particularly the picture of general Jewish hyper-~~actitvity~~ ("Jews are like everybody else only more so") and marginality might be that this was essentially guilt behavior. And in answer to the question of whence the guilt, your views on the death of Jesus and the failure of the Jews to accept their Christian heritage would have great meaning.
			The psychologists' view of the matter, particularly the picture of general Jewish hyper-activity ("Jews are like everybody else only more so") and marginality might be that this was essentially guilt behavior. And in answer to the question of whence the guilt, your views on the death of Jesus and the failure of the Jews to accept their Christian heritage would have great meaning.

	But if this would solve the problem, I don't know whether it would explain it, since Jewish marginality is pre-Christian (Jews have lived continuously outside Palestine since the destruction of the first temple) and extra-Christian, e.g. the Cochin Jews in China, the B'nai Israel in India, The Falasha Jews in Ethopia, and the Yemenite Jews. One is reminded at this point of Freud's hypothesis that the Jews killed the Egyptian, Moses, which would pre-date the source of guilt to the very origins of the people.		But if this would solve the problem, I don't know whether it would explain it, since Jewish marginality is pre-Christian (Jews have lived continuously outside Palestine since the destruction of the first temple) and extra-Christian, e.g. the Cochin Jews in China, the B'nai Israel in India, The Falasha Jews in Ethopia, and the Yemenite Jews. One is reminded at this point of Freud's hypothesis that the Jews killed the Egyptian, Moses, which would pre-date the source of guilt to the very origins of the people.
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	And then I wonder whether the solution is really workable? There are today inhabitants of Catholic villages in Spain whose ancestors were Jews who converted at the time of the Spanish Inquisition, that are still known as the Jewish Catholics. And will not the baptised Marx and Disraeli always retain their primary designation as Jews? Is "unjewing" really possible?		And then I wonder whether the solution is really workable? There are today inhabitants of Catholic villages in Spain whose ancestors were Jews who converted at the time of the Spanish Inquisition, that are still known as the Jewish Catholics. And will not the baptised Marx and Disraeli always retain their primary designation as Jews? Is "unjewing" really possible?

	The whole question is to me an enigma wrapped in paradox. On the one hand we have a nation of pawnshopkeepers, speculators, versatile 'luftmenschen', restless, lacking roots an often depth and dignity - a wretched parable of alienation. Their transformation " as unto other nation" was essentially the object of the Zionist revolution in Jewish life.		The whole question is to me an enigma wrapped in paradox. On the one hand we have a nation of pawnshopkeepers, speculators, versatile 'luftmenschen', restless, lacking roots an often depth and dignity - a wretched parable of alienation. Their transformation "as unto other nation" was essentially the object of the Zionist revolution in Jewish life.

	On the other hand we can say that the Jews by their very apartness, have been a witness against idolatry - most recently against the monolithic subjugation of the totalitarian state?		On the other hand we can say that the Jews by their very apartness, have been a witness against idolatry - most recently against the monolithic subjugation of the totalitarian state?

Santiago Pinault at 20:35, 31 August 2019

2019-08-31T20:35:48Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 21:35, 31 August 2019
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	{{Page \|n°=213}} […]		{{Page \|n°=213}} […]
			:It would be a fascinating task to rewrite Economic History in the light of these ideas, from its remote beginnings; to conjecture whether the civilizations of Sumeria and Egypt drew their stimulus from the gold of Arabia and the copper of Africa, which being monetary metals, left a trail of profit behind them in the course their distribution through the lands between the Mediterranean and the Persian Gulf, … […]

	~~{{Page \|n°=214}}~~ […] You talked to me, for a few moments during my visit, of the great significance you felt the H bomb had, without elaborating in detail. If I understand the implication, you think that in the absence of an organized peace interest, similar to the old balance-and-power arrangement, the H bomb with its threat of utter global destruction will serve as such a compelling force for peace - thus posing the important problems in the world in the realm of politics. Would you admit, in this scheme, the persistence of wars which are short,{{Page \|n°=215}} localized, fought with non-nuclear weapons, and an arbitrated peace (rather than unconditional surrender?)		Secondly, she kept making the point that nationalism … […]

	~~…justice, freedom and order, have been defined~~ in ~~economic terms~~. ~~…economic statistics… (~~…)		The history of the state in the past 800 years could bear some interesting re-examination I think. The state is a somewhat veiled protagonist in your book, but its role … […]

	~~It seems~~ that ~~economic statistics, particularly~~ the ~~construction~~ of ~~indices and national economic aggregates~~, ~~must rest on prices, or some kind~~ of ~~interchangeable valuation or all~~-~~purpose money~~, ~~which in turn needs some kind of market~~. Now an important feature of statistics in a market economy or mixed economy, is that prices bear a fairly consistent relationship to real coast (although I' not completely clear as to what that depends on)~~, supply and demand notwithstanding.~~		One might have thought that in the wake of the social disruption which the West brought to the East, there might have been at least one important country that would have rejected the whole package of Western institutions along {{Page \|n°=214}} with Western technology - yet although there were protest, against preceeding towards industrialization (e.g. Ghandi) … […]

	~~[…]~~ The ~~Guaranteed Annual Wage would~~, ~~I think~~, ~~be a prime example~~.		The question arises in my mind, of a creative adaptation of new technology within existing institutions, often to the benefit of the letter, e.g. the adoption and internal integration of the horse by the American Indian, - or … […]

	{{Page \|n°=216}} May I, as final item try and bring together some of the strands of our conversation on Jews? Your remarks were by far the most illuminating I have heard. The two concepts, that the Jews have remained outside the human community, and the chosen people concept are, I now think, the key factors. (Or are these two sides of the same coin ?)		And yet, the coming of the market economy was so utterly different in terms of institutional … […]

			You talked to me, for a few moments during my visit, of the great significance you felt the H bomb had, without elaborating in detail. If I understand the implication, you think that in the absence of an organized peace interest, similar to the old balance-and-power arrangement, the H bomb with its threat of utter global destruction will serve as such a compelling force for peace - thus posing the important problems in the world in the realm of politics. Would you admit, in this scheme, the persistence of wars which are short, {{Page \|n°=215}} localized, fought with non-nuclear weapons, and an arbitrated peace (rather than unconditional surrender?)

			One of the most intriguing points you have made, is ont the semantics question, namely, the extent to which justice, freedom and order, have been defined in economic terms. Since I am rather preocuppied in my job, with economic statistics, this had led me to think the extent to which the whole field of economic … […]

			It seems that economic statistics, particularly the construction of indices and national economic aggregates, must rest on prices, or some kind of interchangeable valuation or all-purpose money, which in turn needs some kind of market. Now an important feature of statistics in a market economy or mixed economy, is that prices bear a fairly consistent relationship to real coast (although I' not completely clear as to what that depends on), supply and demand notwithstanding. In a highly administrated system, e.g. Russia, this need not be so, and thus all kinds of arbitrary prices are possible. […]

			{{Page \|n°=216}} our anti-monopoly … […] The Guaranteed Annual Wage would, I think, be a prime example.

			May I, as final item try and bring together some of the strands of our conversation on Jews? Your remarks were by far the most illuminating I have heard. The two concepts, that the Jews have remained outside the human community, and the chosen people concept are, I now think, the key factors. (Or are these two sides of the same coin?)

	However, I am more inclined to think that the matter rests on a condition, rather than a doctrine or belief. (I think this may be getting into the chicken-and-the-egg dilemma, but impotent people and children are generally known to regard themselves at the center of the universe - as a defensive belief following the opposite feeling or condition). I think that the doctrine of chosenness carries little weight, if it is not entirely repudiated by most Jews today. Ethno-centrism is not a popular doctrine… But the <u>condition</u> of apartness or chosenness seems to hold. Certainly their position in history has been unique.		However, I am more inclined to think that the matter rests on a condition, rather than a doctrine or belief. (I think this may be getting into the chicken-and-the-egg dilemma, but impotent people and children are generally known to regard themselves at the center of the universe - as a defensive belief following the opposite feeling or condition). I think that the doctrine of chosenness carries little weight, if it is not entirely repudiated by most Jews today. Ethno-centrism is not a popular doctrine… But the <u>condition</u> of apartness or chosenness seems to hold. Certainly their position in history has been unique.
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	On the other hand we can say that the Jews by their very apartness, have been a witness against idolatry - most recently against the monolithic subjugation of the totalitarian state?		On the other hand we can say that the Jews by their very apartness, have been a witness against idolatry - most recently against the monolithic subjugation of the totalitarian state?

	Your work has in its way, been a testament to the existence of the human community. The human community takes one of its ~~concrets~~ forms principally in the nation-state, territorially based and historically defined. Jewish history is the precise opposite and so has remained outside.		Your work has in its way, been a testament to the existence of the human community. The human community takes one of its concrete forms principally in the nation-state, territorially based and historically defined. Jewish history is the precise opposite and so has remained outside.

	But can we believe that this history itself points to a oneness or community of man, beyond a given place and a certain time? If shorn of this, does it remain a pitiable absurdity?		But can we believe that this history itself points to a oneness or community of man, beyond a given place and a certain time? If shorn of this, does it remain a pitiable absurdity?

	{{Page \|n°=218}} I think now, that I have rambled on long enough, and I am sure that this letter hangs too well together. However, it is a clue to what I have been thinking about lately. I should like very much to see you again, and would be glad to accept your invitation to Pickering. I find I have a ~~log~~ weekend at New Year's, but you might find this notice rather short. ~~Actallly~~, the first weekend you are free will do. You might write directions from Toronto. Meantime, I hope your books are coming along well, and that you have been enjoying the best of health.		{{Page \|n°=218}} I think now, that I have rambled on long enough, and I am sure that this letter hangs too well together. However, it is a clue to what I have been thinking about lately. I should like very much to see you again, and would be glad to accept your invitation to Pickering. I find I have a long weekend at New Year's, but you might find this notice rather short. Actually, the first weekend you are free will do. You might write directions from Toronto. Meantime, I hope your books are coming along well, and that you have been enjoying the best of health.

	My kind regards and best wishes for Christmas and the New Year,		My kind regards and best wishes for Christmas and the New Year,

Santiago Pinault at 16:17, 16 January 2018

2018-01-16T16:17:49Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:17, 16 January 2018
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	Dec. 17, 1955<br />		{{Page \|n°=212}} Dec. 17, 1955<br />
	8575 Outremont<br />		8575 Outremont<br />
	Montreal		Montreal
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	Dear Professor Polanyi,		Dear Professor Polanyi,

	~~{{Page \|n°=212}}~~ […] ~~Barbara Ward…~~		It was good to speak to you by telephone last month, and in the interval, my work on the book has been coming along. I mentioned to you that I was doing a detailed indexing of the Great Transformation with a view to rearranging the material. I have been working to a tentative skeleton for the new book, but I am not quite happy with this latter item yet, and propose to show it to you after some further revisions. I have worked through about half the book, which is not a very rapid rate of progress - but considering that the book is crammed with material and ideas on the one hand, and that my personal situation is still rather involved on the other, I am too unhappy about it, particularly since I think I have a good grasp of what I have covered.

			Barbara Ward was in Montreal several weeks ago, and gave a rather brilliant series of lectures, generally on the impact of the West and the East. She has the great virtue of a sweeping perspective on her subject which does not trickle away by narrow overemphasis single facets of the problem. She presented a striking picture of what a disruptive battering ram the West really has been on this globe in terms of its effect on Eastern Civilization. […]

	{{Page \|n°=213}} […]		{{Page \|n°=213}} […]

	{{Page \|n°=215}} It seems that economic statistics, particularly the construction of indices and national economic aggregates, must rest on prices, or some kind of interchangeable valuation or all-purpose money, which in turn needs some kind of market. Now an important feature of statistics in a market economy or mixed economy, is that prices bear a fairly consistent relationship to real coast (although I' not completely clear as to what that depends on), supply and demand notwithstanding.

	[…]		{{Page \|n°=214}} […] You talked to me, for a few moments during my visit, of the great significance you felt the H bomb had, without elaborating in detail. If I understand the implication, you think that in the absence of an organized peace interest, similar to the old balance-and-power arrangement, the H bomb with its threat of utter global destruction will serve as such a compelling force for peace - thus posing the important problems in the world in the realm of politics. Would you admit, in this scheme, the persistence of wars which are short,{{Page \|n°=215}} localized, fought with non-nuclear weapons, and an arbitrated peace (rather than unconditional surrender?)

			…justice, freedom and order, have been defined in economic terms. …economic statistics… (…)

			It seems that economic statistics, particularly the construction of indices and national economic aggregates, must rest on prices, or some kind of interchangeable valuation or all-purpose money, which in turn needs some kind of market. Now an important feature of statistics in a market economy or mixed economy, is that prices bear a fairly consistent relationship to real coast (although I' not completely clear as to what that depends on), supply and demand notwithstanding.

			[…] The Guaranteed Annual Wage would, I think, be a prime example.

	{{Page \|n°=216}} May I, as final item try and bring together some of the strands of our conversation on Jews? Your remarks were by far the most illuminating I have heard. The two concepts, that the Jews have remained outside the human community, and the chosen people concept are, I now think, the key factors. (Or are these two sides of the same coin ?)		{{Page \|n°=216}} May I, as final item try and bring together some of the strands of our conversation on Jews? Your remarks were by far the most illuminating I have heard. The two concepts, that the Jews have remained outside the human community, and the chosen people concept are, I now think, the key factors. (Or are these two sides of the same coin ?)
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	But can we believe that this history itself points to a oneness or community of man, beyond a given place and a certain time? If shorn of this, does it remain a pitiable absurdity?		But can we believe that this history itself points to a oneness or community of man, beyond a given place and a certain time? If shorn of this, does it remain a pitiable absurdity?

	~~[…]~~		{{Page \|n°=218}} I think now, that I have rambled on long enough, and I am sure that this letter hangs too well together. However, it is a clue to what I have been thinking about lately. I should like very much to see you again, and would be glad to accept your invitation to Pickering. I find I have a log weekend at New Year's, but you might find this notice rather short. Actallly, the first weekend you are free will do. You might write directions from Toronto. Meantime, I hope your books are coming along well, and that you have been enjoying the best of health.

			My kind regards and best wishes for Christmas and the New Year,

			<span style="margin-left:100px" class="hand-written">Abe Rotstein</span>

	== Letter Informations ==		== Letter Informations ==
	'''KPA''': [[49/04]], 212-218		'''KPA''': [[49/04]], 212-218

Santiago Pinault at 00:21, 15 August 2017

2017-08-15T00:21:54Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:21, 15 August 2017
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	Dear Professor Polanyi,		Dear Professor Polanyi,

	[…]		{{Page \|n°=212}} […] Barbara Ward…

	{{Page \|n°=213}} […]		{{Page \|n°=213}} […]

Santiago Pinault at 22:14, 14 August 2017

2017-08-14T22:14:18Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:14, 14 August 2017
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	[…]		[…]

			== Letter Informations ==
			'''KPA''': [[49/04]], 212-218

Santiago Pinault at 23:26, 13 August 2017

2017-08-13T23:26:16Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:26, 14 August 2017
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	[…]		[…]

	[~~213~~]		{{Page \|n°=213}} […]

	[215] It seems that economic statistics, particularly the construction of indices and national economic aggregates, must rest on prices, or some kind of interchangeable valuation or all-purpose money, which in turn needs some kind of market. Now an important feature of statistics in a market economy or mixed economy, is that prices bear a fairly consistent relationship to real coast (although I' not completely clear as to what that depends on), supply and demand notwithstanding.		{{Page \|n°=215}} It seems that economic statistics, particularly the construction of indices and national economic aggregates, must rest on prices, or some kind of interchangeable valuation or all-purpose money, which in turn needs some kind of market. Now an important feature of statistics in a market economy or mixed economy, is that prices bear a fairly consistent relationship to real coast (although I' not completely clear as to what that depends on), supply and demand notwithstanding.

	[…]		[…]

	[216] May I, as final item try and bring together some of the strands of our conversation on Jews? Your remarks were by far the most illuminating I have heard. The two concepts, that the Jews have remained outside the human community, and the chosen people concept are, I now think, the key factors. (Or are these two sides of the same coin ?)		{{Page \|n°=216}} May I, as final item try and bring together some of the strands of our conversation on Jews? Your remarks were by far the most illuminating I have heard. The two concepts, that the Jews have remained outside the human community, and the chosen people concept are, I now think, the key factors. (Or are these two sides of the same coin ?)

	However, I am more inclined to think that the matter rests on a condition, rather than a doctrine or belief. (I think this may be getting into the chicken-and-the-egg dilemma, but impotent people and children are generally known to regard themselves at the center of the universe - as a defensive belief following the opposite feeling or condition). I think that the doctrine of chosenness carries little weight, if it is not entirely repudiated by most Jews today. Ethno-centrism is not a popular doctrine… But the <u>condition</u> of apartness or chosenness seems to hold. Certainly their position in history has been unique.		However, I am more inclined to think that the matter rests on a condition, rather than a doctrine or belief. (I think this may be getting into the chicken-and-the-egg dilemma, but impotent people and children are generally known to regard themselves at the center of the universe - as a defensive belief following the opposite feeling or condition). I think that the doctrine of chosenness carries little weight, if it is not entirely repudiated by most Jews today. Ethno-centrism is not a popular doctrine… But the <u>condition</u> of apartness or chosenness seems to hold. Certainly their position in history has been unique.

Santiago Pinault: Created page with "Dec. 17, 1955
8575 Outremont
Montreal Dear Professor Polanyi, […] [213] [215] It seems that economic statistics, particularly the construction of indices an..."

2017-06-15T23:15:51Z

Created page with "Dec. 17, 1955 8575 Outremont Montreal Dear Professor Polanyi, […] [213] [215] It seems that economic statistics, particularly the construction of indices an..."

New page

Dec. 17, 1955 
8575 Outremont 
Montreal

Dear Professor Polanyi,

[…]

[213]

[215] It seems that economic statistics, particularly the construction of indices and national economic aggregates, must rest on prices, or some kind of interchangeable valuation or all-purpose money, which in turn needs some kind of market. Now an important feature of statistics in a market economy or mixed economy, is that prices bear a fairly consistent relationship to real coast (although I' not completely clear as to what that depends on), supply and demand notwithstanding.

[…]

[216] May I, as final item try and bring together some of the strands of our conversation on Jews? Your remarks were by far the most illuminating I have heard. The two concepts, that the Jews have remained outside the human community, and the chosen people concept are, I now think, the key factors. (Or are these two sides of the same coin ?)

However, I am more inclined to think that the matter rests on a condition, rather than a doctrine or belief. (I think this may be getting into the chicken-and-the-egg dilemma, but impotent people and children are generally known to regard themselves at the center of the universe - as a defensive belief following the opposite feeling or condition). I think that the doctrine of chosenness carries little weight, if it is not entirely repudiated by most Jews today. Ethno-centrism is not a popular doctrine… But the condition of apartness or chosenness seems to hold. Certainly their position in history has been unique.
The psychologists' view of the matter, particularly the picture of general Jewish hyper-actitvity ("Jews are like everybody else only more so") and marginality might be that this was essentially guilt behavior. And in answer to the question of whence the guilt, your views on the death of Jesus and the failure of the Jews to accept their Christian heritage would have great meaning.

But if this would solve the problem, I don't know whether it would explain it, since Jewish marginality is pre-Christian (Jews have lived continuously outside Palestine since the destruction of the first temple) and extra-Christian, e.g. the Cochin Jews in China, the B'nai Israel in India, The Falasha Jews in Ethopia, and the Yemenite Jews. One is reminded at this point of Freud's hypothesis that the Jews killed the Egyptian, Moses, which would pre-date the source of guilt to the very origins of the people.

And then I wonder whether the solution is really workable? There are today inhabitants of Catholic villages in Spain whose ancestors were Jews who converted at the time of the Spanish Inquisition, that are still known as the Jewish Catholics. And will not the baptised Marx and Disraeli always retain their primary designation as Jews? Is "unjewing" really possible?

The whole question is to me an enigma wrapped in paradox. On the one hand we have a nation of pawnshopkeepers, speculators, versatile 'luftmenschen', restless, lacking roots an often depth and dignity - a wretched parable of alienation. Their transformation " as unto other nation" was essentially the object of the Zionist revolution in Jewish life.

On the other hand we can say that the Jews by their very apartness, have been a witness against idolatry - most recently against the monolithic subjugation of the totalitarian state?

Your work has in its way, been a testament to the existence of the human community. The human community takes one of its concrets forms principally in the nation-state, territorially based and historically defined. Jewish history is the precise opposite and so has remained outside.

But can we believe that this history itself points to a oneness or community of man, beyond a given place and a certain time? If shorn of this, does it remain a pitiable absurdity?

[…]